Being an independent author is a lot like running a small business. You’re in charge of every aspect of the process, such as writing, research, marketing, graphic design, editing, formatting, publishing, distribution, touring (virtual or otherwise), and public relations. Even if you don’t personally do all of those things, you usually find someone who can assist you.
The other day I was looking at Scrivener and thought it seemed like a helpful tool, but didn’t want to pay $55 for it. I generally write in a Google Docs because it’s simple, free, and in the cloud. The reason I was looking for something new was because I needed a better way to take notes, one that was visually appealing and would help me stay on track.
What software or techniques do you use to remain engaged with your stories? Are there any best practices that have helped you with worldbuilding or note taking? Separately, do you stick to deadlines, or do you find them restrictive/stressful? Can’t wait to hear your thoughts! ~ WM
I just might. I think the issue is that I'm not a great note-taker to begin with, therefore purchasing a software for that purpose feels like buying an expensive guitar to learn how to play guitar (as if the purchase itself will enhance my ability).
Oddly enough, I heard about the toolbox fallacy today. The feeling of needing "X" so that I can do "Y", which often results in "Y" never manifesting.
Maybe someday I will feel justified in purchasing Scrivener, but I think it's one of those things where I need to work my way up to it rather than hoping it will fix my persistent problem of poor organization. Or who knows, it could be a game changer for me.
I'm so glad that you've found it useful, though. I've heard great things from others as well. I've downloaded the 30-day free trial, so I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for the extra motivation, Shaina!
Hey Sherman, FYI on that trial period, it says that you don't just have 30 days from the time of downloading, but a cumulative 30 days of active use. I thought that was neat. And thanks for stopping by to comment!
Same. I don't outline short stories, and only have been outlining my novel after the fact, so I'm not sure what Scrivener would offer that GoogleDocs doesn't.
I use it and it’s wonderful! Not too hard to figure out. But I’m probably not using many of the features. Great for notes and it’s saved me a couple of times when I forgot to save something. I recommend it!
I bought it a few years ago and found it to be really good for managing several streams of thought. However, I only scratched the surface because getting?top of all its complexity was, or at least seemed to be, a step too far.
Google Docs has just become my go-to choice out of convenience and after years of trying different things, it's been the one that facilitates my writing the most. It'll be hard to try change, but not impossible.
OMG. World Anvil looks like just what I need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to poke around it a bit more, but thank you for sharing, T. :)
I personally use Scrivener and I don’t know how I would manage without it. I find Google docs gets really glitchy if you have a lot of text in it. I even use Scrivener for things like editing interviews and my novels definitely have all been written in scrivener.
You too, Charlotte?! Is this everyone's secret to being awesome? haha
Google Docs does get super glitchy around the 50k word mark. I had a novel that just wouldn't load for like 5 minutes a few years ago, but it's gotten slightly better since then (slightly).
Wait, so you write in Scrivener too? It's not just for notes and timelines?
Oh yes. I do character pages too in Scrivener. Tried a free trial of Plottr recently too and it was fun to play with, but then I went right back to Scrivener.
Same here! Plottr was cool to mess around with, but it was just one more file to manage. I like having everything in one place. Scrivener makes it so easy :-)
Yep! The only thing I liked better about Plottr was their character card templates, which had more in-built formatting, so made them kind of like ID cards and could recognize by the person’s face if you included an image. Working on a novel with a big ensemble cast currently so that feature was useful.
What about if you wanted to share something with someone, or request edits/feedback on work that was written in Scrivener? Is there an export function?
There is "compile" where you can export all or part of your ms into any format (like a word doc, etc.) so others could review and comment. I'm not aware of a sharing feature that allows simultaneous edits.
And another thing. It does sync to cloud. So you could collaborate that way. I just use it on one computer on my desktop and save files to a folder that syncs to my google drive. But I found this article if you were looking for it to be more easily collaborative. https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/syncing-scrivener-projects-to-the-cloud
Yes, I do all in Scrivener. Outline, write, edit. At some point I do usually export it to a Doc just to trick my brain into seeing new errors. And I’ll use ProWriting aid to look for repeats/echos, but the primary things I do in Scrivener and I’ve been using it probably for like 8 years. Feel like I’ve had it in my life a long time.
Scrivener is not for everyone, but it was a game-changer for me! I love it and can't imagine writing my books without it. If you write long-form works, it's worth looking into. As I've mentioned before, I wrote (and am now revising) the three books of my trilogy simultaneously, and Scrivener allows me to keep all three manuscripts open and neatly categorized in one seamless file, with each volume, chapter, and scene in its own subfolder or doc where I can easily find it. This also serves as an outline, and it lets me keep my character and setting notes, research, etc. on hand. I can export these files into any format I want. There are tons of great features. I sound like a rep for the company, but I cannot say enough about it! I'm happy to answer questions (though I'm far from an expert!)
As far as deadlines, if they're work-related, they're no problem and I'm happy to stick to them. I don't like letting people down. Creatively, when it's MY work, I let myself off the hook a lot and wait for inspiration or the mood to write to strike. I can leave a project sitting for months this way, so I imposed some deadlines on myself with my newsletter to try to keep myself motivated. I've been much more productive with a schedule to keep. I might change it a little next year to give myself some breathing room, because there has been a time-crunch with all of my other responsibilities. But just holding myself accountable to some kind of deadline has kept me on target for finishing my projects.
This is wonderful to hear, Jacquie. You and Shaina have given it high praise, and I respect both of your opinions so I'll make sure to use the free trial to figure out a method that might work for me.
I'm the same way with deadlines. I procrastinate the heck out of things I need to do for myself, unless it's for someone else, then I try not to let them down. However, deadlines for Substack (weekly/monthly) have really kept me on track and I'm much better off for it. Glad to hear that you've found some sort of strategy that benefits you. Do you set alerts or reminders, or just try to manage it in your head?
For my newsletter deadlines, I just picked two days of the week to post--one for essays and one for chapters, and try to stick to that, so it's pretty easy to remember and I can usually schedule in advance. I might mix it up for next year, but I'm still deciding.
Oh, that's exactly how I do it: two days a week. Wednesday for community-related stuff and Saturday for fiction. I'd be really curious if Substack adds reader stats for us in the future to gauge the best time to post.
However, I don't have my phone on me during the day at work so I take a notebook and write out my wishful schedule for the month sometimes. But I haven't used reminders yet.
I'm not a very fast writer, so TBH I struggle with the idea of writing deadlines. If I rush too much, the finished product isn't very good. The fact that I (thankfully) have a day job also complicates things.
I've actually been meaning to get some input on this, since I've started up my own Substack recently. Do I need to constantly be churning out content in order to get a readership, or do you think people would be willing to wait for higher quality work?
Hey Leigh, I guarantee you others in this thread are better suited to respond to this question, but I'll try my best to answer.
I think "content" is one way of looking at this from an objective viewpoint, something that we should all consider if we aim to improve. However, the word "content" has a negative conation (IMO). It's something I'm looking to avoid when approaching writing because it can reduce what you're creating down to an algorithmic blip on the radar meant for likes and clicks, which isn't what we are doing at the end of the day. Most of us, at least.
I believe people are definitely willing to wait for great storytelling. Less is more kind of thing. Daniel Davison and I were just discussing how the literature is likely what will outlast everything else on this platform, likely the platform itself. But there's no wrong answer here. Any extra engagement you add to your Substack likely won't hurt, but it depends on who you want your audience to be. I'm increasingly aware that the more I post about writing, the more my audience will likely be other writers, and that's great. That's the community I want to be surrounded by.
I have another Substack where I'll be posting stories after they are finished. Which is a much different approach than serializing a first draft. But I've yet to prove that I can accomplish that task, so we'll see how it turns out. Working full-time does limit the time we have to work on this stuff.
I hope that helps and wasn't too forward. I welcome others to toss in their thoughts and ideas here as well. Thanks for commenting! Keep up the great work. :)
Not too forward at all. That's the kind of thing I was looking for. I hope you and Daniel are right about literature posted on Substack. It really is such a game changer for the vast majority of writers; those of us who aren't well connected or lucky enough for traditional publishing.
The stuff I typically write is kind of niche (I haven't come across that many other historical horror writers), but I'm hoping that also means that there's less competition. I'm not expecting a huge audience, but it would be nice for the stuff I spend all this time on to actually be seen by someone other than me and my friends.
Substack says to be consistent. So whether 2x a month or 1x a week, be consistent. I’ve read from Substack you should post 1x week - but start how you can. My substack has changed so much over the year I’ve done it. And I read about how other substacks are growing crazily - mine isn’t. It’s very slow. But even after a year, I’m still getting into my flow so I’m not worrying about it (too much...). And it seems to people who are growing quickly are cross promoting and sound heavy social media. You see the people having great success- but the thousands who aren’t probably aren’t posting about it. Just keep going.
I’ve discovered this radical new technology recently. Ok, it involves two pieces of plastic, but hear me out - they’re only small.
The smaller piece fits inside the bigger one. Inside the smaller piece is this gooey stuff used for mark making. Then you need this flattened pulped tree stuff, but the trees are replaced so no harm no foul. This is when the real magic begins.
I then place collections of systematised marks on the things I’m gonna call pages. Weirdly, those symbols are associated with certain sounds with ascribed meaning. Those meanings are more like associations than definitions but offer incredible opportunities for cognitive and affective correspondence and resonance.
Then - are you ready for this bit? - when arranged in the right way, they carry fragments of my consciousness outwards so that you may learn of how wonderful you all are and how much I appreciate this space.
And it’s all right there on the page. But also not.
I do love how this insanely complex thing we do is often overlooked as trivial, yet it's the foundation of almost everything we do in our daily lives. Thanks for that perspective, Adrian. I needed that. :)
Scrivener is the best investment an author can make (or anyone working on long-form text). The cost is pretty decent for such a powerful professional tool.
I like deadlines, they're useful. I tend to flail about without them. I think this is why I like writing serial fiction so much: it gives me a mini-deadline every week. That's kept me reliably productive for about 7 years now.
Back to Scrivener, I'd also say that I'd have really struggled without it. Its flexible working style and ability to keep everything under one roof has been essential to being able to write, plan and iterate quickly. And while it appears to be a technical and complicated tool at first glance, what I've actually found is that it's got all of the technical aspects of writing - the nuts and bolts and faffy stuff - out of the way, so that I can focus on the creative bits.
ALL THAT SAID: The last few weeks have been a challenge. A mixture of darker, shorter days, busyness with Christmas and my son's birthday and other (nice) things have made it difficult to focus on the writing. I've still got a chapter out every week, but it's been a bit skin-of-my-teeth. I should probably go and write a chapter instead of writing this comment, in fact. ;)
Hey Simon, thanks for taking the time to stop by and comment. That's very high praise for Scrivener. I've been going through the free-trial, and the instructions on how to use it are laid out in a digestible fashion. I think my problem before (back in 2017) was that I didn't take the time to read the instructions and got overwhelmed with all of the features.
You've been doing awesome stuff lately and congrats on the book launch. I'm impressed at the quality of the print and design for No Adults Allowed. It's making Amazon look like a pretty good option for publishing. And having family obligations can really pull one away from writing, so I commend you for sticking to your passion. Keep it up! :)
I didn't really 'get' Scrivener until I worked on a major project in it. Dabbling with a blank project feels overwhelming, without seeing the benefits. It was only when I ported a manuscript into it (which had previously been in a single giant Word doc) that I suddenly realised its real power - taking a big chunk of text and splitting it into navigable chunks.
Huge thanks for grabbing a copy of NAA! Really appreciate that. I was also pleasantly surprised by the print quality. The cover card is slightly more bendy than I'd like, but the actual colour reproduction on it is spot on (looks exactly like my digital files). The quality of the interior really shines, I think: nice paper, doesn't feel like toilet paper, very clear, black print.
I may have to look into going wider in the future (eg via Ingram Spark), but one thing at a time. I'd need to significantly increase my sales for that extra effort to be worth it.
I use google docs for my writing, not only is it free and on the cloud, but I can curl up in bed and plug away on my iPad. For notes, I use Google sheets and sometimes Procreate if I need a digital sketchbook. They just happen to be what I already have on hand on my iPad. It’s a step up from napkins, post it notes, and a dozen notebooks at least. I have 3 file folders full of my scrap notes for my Tuomi world building. I’m impressed I still somehow understand the random scribbles I made over 20 years ago.
Only deadline I give myself is to try posting on Fridays. I give myself flexibility because my health and job as mom needs to come first. The moment writing stops being a relaxing ‘hobby’ and becomes a required ’job’ is when I’ll probably stop. I have enough ‘jobs’... too many to be honest.
Glad to see equal support for the ol' Docs. It's one of the best free options (IMO) that is easily accessible on all platforms. I've never considered using Sheets as a note-taking tool, so that's unique and smart. Have you used Google Keep? I re-discovered it last week and I LOVE the simplicity of the tag feature. I need to use Procreate more, it's such a powerful art tool that I have zero experience with.
I totally understand the desire to keep writing as a hobby. That's healthy. I lose interest in a project fairly quickly if I don't feel passionately about it. However, I run into problems with novels because I tend to move on to the next shiny idea. That's why serializing has been the best option for completing longer stories since it keeps it fresh on the mind.
I find that deadlines ensure stuff actually gets written, otherwise it tends to be kicked down the road, giving way to jobs that do have a deadline attached.
Hey Terry, this is so true. I've noticed that without having deadlines, stories have been in my head for 10+ years. That has to change. If you want different results, you have to do things differently.
The story a week deadline (1000-2000 words) I set for myself ended up being critical for my personal growth. Between that and sending out for publication, it also helped me to build up enough stories to put together a collection.
For writing I use Google docs, but for the collection I'm putting it together and formatting inside LibreOffice, which is free and open source. I save it to a network drive and backup inside Dropbox. I don't really take notes, but I have an idea journal now that I write in... that's my crazy process 😂
That story a week deadline sounds awesome! I need to do something like that. I get too caught up in the perfection of the story planning and forget that the point of all this is to write it down somewhere to fix it later.
Haven't heard of LibreOffice, but I'll look it up. Sounds like you've got a routine and a method that works for you! I like it. Keep it up, Brian.
I ended up purchasing Atticus for my formatting, which I'm liking but I haven't been able to use it to its full capacity just yet. I'll probably update everyone as I get closer to actually publishing something soon.
Thanks for stopping by to comment! I look forward to reading more of your work. You're doing awesome stuff on Future Thief and Fictionistas.
Great question. I’m old-school. Jonathan Franzen-style. I use good ole Word. As a few have said on here, and as I’ve heard repeatedly on Substack Reads: it’s all about consistency and quality when it comes to posts. I post every 3-4 days; usually twice a week. I’ve found personally that posting early (I schedule ahead) around 4am gets more reads. I think it’s cause early risers see it up front in their inbox. As a book editor had freelance writer I’m used to deadlines.
Nice, Michael. Word is fairly popular still. A lot of my writing buddies here in Utah prefer Word. I have nothing against it, it just hasn't always been accessible to me, I suppose (switching between Apple and other products, for example).
I also post 2 times a week. I think it's a happy balance of keeping readers engaged and not overwhelming their inboxes.
I think you're right about posting in the AM. I used to do that but I couldn't sleep the night before because I was too stressed about the post going out, so I moved it to the evening and I saw a slight decline in engagement. But it's okay! I am psychologically happier by having the extra time to edit/worry haha.
I wish I could write every day. I sit down to write sometimes and nothing happens. Sigh. But it's always those last few days before a deadline that I can crank something out. It's how I've always worked.
I do both but only when writing books. Michael Chabon said something like if you're going to write novels, that's a lot of words, so you've got to write every day. Which is pretty much how it works for me. The trick is to get really connected to the world and the work of describing it. Not the world deets, per se, but anything that keeps you interested in it. For me, that's usually the people in it—you know, the characters—and the strange circumstance of whatever a scene is about.
I like that. It is a lot of words indeed. I suppose that's why I carry a journal around most of the time. Not necessarily to "work" on the stories, but the tangible reminder that it's there and can be accessed at any moment to get immersed back into the world. So that is important.
I bought scrivener and instantly loved it for all the nerdy fun writerly features and doodads it provided. Then 90% through writing my novel it crashed, locked me out forever and destroyed all my work!
After a brief anxiety attack, I thankfully remembered I had emailed some earlier draft chapters to myself and was able to recover it in pieces. Whew! (On the bright side, the crash forced me to rewrite some of the later sections in a more efficient manner 🤪)
Though I loved using the system, I definitely learned a lesson in storing all my story information (all notes, backstories, ideas, etc.) in one place. Now I use good ol’ Word and Dropbox! But I do miss the visual aspect of having all my notes in one place with Scrivener, which felt extremely immersive. (Like I was steeping in my own story 😊)
I’m glad to have discovered this newsletter and all you fellow writers!
I wrote my first book using Google Docs. Shared a copy with my editor and beta readers, made all my revisions. Designed the cover using Google Slides. Made enough money to buy Scrivener. Used it for a little bit, but couldn’t do everything I wanted through it (sharing, cover design). Then my child killed my Mac and I switched to a Chromebook because I don’t want to spend hundreds or thousands every time a kid breaks something (so far: MacBook, iPad, iPad Pro, iPhone). So now I’m back to doing everything on Google products (except formatting, for which I use Atticus).
Hey Teague, you've laid out a process that resembles mine pretty closely. Google Slides is super straightforward. I used it for a presentation fairly recently. I use Canva Pro for all of my graphic design stuff now and I'm liking it so far. I also use Atticus!!! But my book is currently being edited, so I haven't formatted using it just yet. Soon!
Sorry for your loss... Apple products are so pricey!! I can't imagine having my iPad Pro broken. *knocks on wood*
Thanks for commenting!! I love hearing about other people's creative process.
I tried notion for a while but found it took way more time to file everything in there. (I still used Google docs.) I sometimes get confused, but I’ll link a research/notes doc on the page I’m writing so I can keep them separate but reference them easily. I’ve shed so many tears over new technology over the past year I’ll stick to a sharpie and large notepad, or computer... my website has been down for almost 2 weeks because I decided I needed to redesign it and thought I needed to change domain servers. After 9 days the new company said I have to manually bring the files over. F that. I went back to my old company but that will be another 5-7 days w no work email or website. So I’m happy printing out pages and working old school. I feel more a part of it anyway. I don’t think all these fancy programs save everyone time....
I've heard of Notion, but haven't used it. I like the idea of linking notes to other docs within google docs. I've done that with a few things.
Writing on paper is special in that it forces you to filter out thoughts differently and you might come up with something you otherwise wouldn't have in a virtual expression. I've doodled things next to my notes that help me refine what it is that I'm trying to articulate, which (depending on the software) you can't do easily online.
Sorry to hear that your website is having troubles. I hope it gets resolved soon. Thanks for commenting, Diane!
Is the “app” version of Scrivener intuitive and reliable? I’ve been using an iPad with a blutooth keyboard as a glorified wordprocessor. The app sounds interesting, but I’m wondering if it’s only worth it if used with a laptop or desktop computer. I have two laptops (a Dell and Mac Book Pro), but the iPad is more compact and easy to use during long flights when I get the urge to write and have to use one of those woefully inadequate fold-down trays as a “desk” since I ALWAYS travel economy (or if you prefer “steerage”), since I refuse to pay for upgrades and my friends complain that I’m about one frugality away from being an out-and-out cheapskate.
I haven't used the app version. I wasn't even aware there was an app. But based on Jacquie's answer, I don't think I would enjoy not having everything in one place if I switched between my PC and my iPad. I'm still learning what it can do with the free trial but we'll see if I make the transition from Google Docs. Change is difficult!
I tried the app version on my iPad and it lacked a lot of the features of the original version, to be honest. But that was a few years ago when it first came out, so maybe they upgraded it? I was hoping my docs would synch between the two versions so I could travel with my iPad and keep working, but they did not, though they will between laptops. I browsed some recent reviews on the App Store and it sounds like some of the same issues are still there, so I guess it depends on how you'd want to use it. There is definitely more limited functionality, and you can't access your work from your computer once you create it in the app. But people who wanted to work exclusively on their devices still gave it high reviews.
I also travel in the cheap seats--usually to spend my time hiking, so carrying a laptop is not the best option (though I did actually carry my mini laptop the whole way along Hadrian's Wall. How much writing did I do? None :-\ ) It would be great if the iPad version mirrored the laptop one, or at least synched with it. For now I just write on my iPad/phone in iA Writer and transfer my notes later. Saves me head/backaches :-)
Do you have to pay annually for Scrivener? I considered it when I was first trying to get serious about writing ages ago but never did a deep dive. Is it mostly beloved because it helps keep you organized? What do people who swear by it like the most about it? Sorry this was probably answered elsewhere in the conversation but don’t have time to hunt around right now so thought I would just ask the question.
Hey Thomas, I believe you pay once for the version that is available, but they seem to update it every few years and you have to pay for access to the upgraded versions (optional).
As I understand it, others seem to like the organization tools. I’m using the free trial so I’m still learning but it has a ton of functionality, which can also be daunting.
I’m not sure it’s something I need, but I’m willing to test it out. I mostly need ways to quickly reference notes without clutter. Google Keep has fulfilled that function for now.
I think about buying Scrivener at least once a week. But it feels like there'd be such a steep learning curve.
I know! I get overwhelmed thinking about it. Almost guaranteed I would purchase it and never use it after day one.
Do it Winston! I know I’m pressuring you guys but...I use it for all my writing.
I just might. I think the issue is that I'm not a great note-taker to begin with, therefore purchasing a software for that purpose feels like buying an expensive guitar to learn how to play guitar (as if the purchase itself will enhance my ability).
Oddly enough, I heard about the toolbox fallacy today. The feeling of needing "X" so that I can do "Y", which often results in "Y" never manifesting.
Maybe someday I will feel justified in purchasing Scrivener, but I think it's one of those things where I need to work my way up to it rather than hoping it will fix my persistent problem of poor organization. Or who knows, it could be a game changer for me.
I'm so glad that you've found it useful, though. I've heard great things from others as well. I've downloaded the 30-day free trial, so I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for the extra motivation, Shaina!
Link to the toolbox fallacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4YqwH_6D0
I mighy give it a go on that free trial.
Hey Sherman, FYI on that trial period, it says that you don't just have 30 days from the time of downloading, but a cumulative 30 days of active use. I thought that was neat. And thanks for stopping by to comment!
Cool!
Same. I don't outline short stories, and only have been outlining my novel after the fact, so I'm not sure what Scrivener would offer that GoogleDocs doesn't.
I've got writer friends who are Scrivener devotees.
*waves*
I'm a bit of a Scrivener evangelist. I should probably do a video tour of how I use it, as it's difficult to convince people of its worth sometimes.
I've tried other word processing apps but I always return to Pages on my Apple machines.
I use it and it’s wonderful! Not too hard to figure out. But I’m probably not using many of the features. Great for notes and it’s saved me a couple of times when I forgot to save something. I recommend it!
I bought it a few years ago and found it to be really good for managing several streams of thought. However, I only scratched the surface because getting?top of all its complexity was, or at least seemed to be, a step too far.
Yeah, I've been looking at the app description and reading reviews and still can't get myself to do the free trial.
I thought the same thing, but it's surprisingly intuitive once you get the basics!
Maybe I'll dust off my copy and give it another whirl, though I have a feeling I will have to pay for an upgrade
I, too, use Google Docs. Also Substack and World Anvil.
Google Docs has just become my go-to choice out of convenience and after years of trying different things, it's been the one that facilitates my writing the most. It'll be hard to try change, but not impossible.
OMG. World Anvil looks like just what I need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to poke around it a bit more, but thank you for sharing, T. :)
You bet! It's a must have for worldbuilding, especially if you want a forward facing portal for readers.
I'll have to feature this in my next newsletter, and I'll give you credit.
That's sweet of you, Winston 😊 Thanks!
Honestly, I'm giddy with excitement while watching this explanation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gliY14anbfQ
It's cool. You can publish from there, too, though I haven't done much with that yet.
I personally use Scrivener and I don’t know how I would manage without it. I find Google docs gets really glitchy if you have a lot of text in it. I even use Scrivener for things like editing interviews and my novels definitely have all been written in scrivener.
You too, Charlotte?! Is this everyone's secret to being awesome? haha
Google Docs does get super glitchy around the 50k word mark. I had a novel that just wouldn't load for like 5 minutes a few years ago, but it's gotten slightly better since then (slightly).
Wait, so you write in Scrivener too? It's not just for notes and timelines?
It's definitely not just for notes! I composed my whole series directly in Scrivener. I also keep my notes there, but that's just a bonus!
Oh yes. I do character pages too in Scrivener. Tried a free trial of Plottr recently too and it was fun to play with, but then I went right back to Scrivener.
Same here! Plottr was cool to mess around with, but it was just one more file to manage. I like having everything in one place. Scrivener makes it so easy :-)
Yep! The only thing I liked better about Plottr was their character card templates, which had more in-built formatting, so made them kind of like ID cards and could recognize by the person’s face if you included an image. Working on a novel with a big ensemble cast currently so that feature was useful.
Yes! I do all my writing in it. The notes are just a bonus.
This changes things....
What about if you wanted to share something with someone, or request edits/feedback on work that was written in Scrivener? Is there an export function?
I appreciate the insightful feedback on this!
There is "compile" where you can export all or part of your ms into any format (like a word doc, etc.) so others could review and comment. I'm not aware of a sharing feature that allows simultaneous edits.
Okay, exporting might be what I'll need to do which isn't a huge roadblock.
And another thing. It does sync to cloud. So you could collaborate that way. I just use it on one computer on my desktop and save files to a folder that syncs to my google drive. But I found this article if you were looking for it to be more easily collaborative. https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/syncing-scrivener-projects-to-the-cloud
I just copy paste it. But I think there are ways to export. You can even have it format manuscripts for story submissions!
Wow! Thank you so much. I'll give this a try.
Yes, I do all in Scrivener. Outline, write, edit. At some point I do usually export it to a Doc just to trick my brain into seeing new errors. And I’ll use ProWriting aid to look for repeats/echos, but the primary things I do in Scrivener and I’ve been using it probably for like 8 years. Feel like I’ve had it in my life a long time.
It never glitches.
Scrivener is not for everyone, but it was a game-changer for me! I love it and can't imagine writing my books without it. If you write long-form works, it's worth looking into. As I've mentioned before, I wrote (and am now revising) the three books of my trilogy simultaneously, and Scrivener allows me to keep all three manuscripts open and neatly categorized in one seamless file, with each volume, chapter, and scene in its own subfolder or doc where I can easily find it. This also serves as an outline, and it lets me keep my character and setting notes, research, etc. on hand. I can export these files into any format I want. There are tons of great features. I sound like a rep for the company, but I cannot say enough about it! I'm happy to answer questions (though I'm far from an expert!)
As far as deadlines, if they're work-related, they're no problem and I'm happy to stick to them. I don't like letting people down. Creatively, when it's MY work, I let myself off the hook a lot and wait for inspiration or the mood to write to strike. I can leave a project sitting for months this way, so I imposed some deadlines on myself with my newsletter to try to keep myself motivated. I've been much more productive with a schedule to keep. I might change it a little next year to give myself some breathing room, because there has been a time-crunch with all of my other responsibilities. But just holding myself accountable to some kind of deadline has kept me on target for finishing my projects.
This is wonderful to hear, Jacquie. You and Shaina have given it high praise, and I respect both of your opinions so I'll make sure to use the free trial to figure out a method that might work for me.
I'm the same way with deadlines. I procrastinate the heck out of things I need to do for myself, unless it's for someone else, then I try not to let them down. However, deadlines for Substack (weekly/monthly) have really kept me on track and I'm much better off for it. Glad to hear that you've found some sort of strategy that benefits you. Do you set alerts or reminders, or just try to manage it in your head?
For my newsletter deadlines, I just picked two days of the week to post--one for essays and one for chapters, and try to stick to that, so it's pretty easy to remember and I can usually schedule in advance. I might mix it up for next year, but I'm still deciding.
Do you use alerts or reminders?
Oh, that's exactly how I do it: two days a week. Wednesday for community-related stuff and Saturday for fiction. I'd be really curious if Substack adds reader stats for us in the future to gauge the best time to post.
However, I don't have my phone on me during the day at work so I take a notebook and write out my wishful schedule for the month sometimes. But I haven't used reminders yet.
Yeah, I don't know if there is like game theory on best posting days/times, so I'm just winging it. Would be cool to see stats!
I'm not a very fast writer, so TBH I struggle with the idea of writing deadlines. If I rush too much, the finished product isn't very good. The fact that I (thankfully) have a day job also complicates things.
I've actually been meaning to get some input on this, since I've started up my own Substack recently. Do I need to constantly be churning out content in order to get a readership, or do you think people would be willing to wait for higher quality work?
Hey Leigh, I guarantee you others in this thread are better suited to respond to this question, but I'll try my best to answer.
I think "content" is one way of looking at this from an objective viewpoint, something that we should all consider if we aim to improve. However, the word "content" has a negative conation (IMO). It's something I'm looking to avoid when approaching writing because it can reduce what you're creating down to an algorithmic blip on the radar meant for likes and clicks, which isn't what we are doing at the end of the day. Most of us, at least.
I believe people are definitely willing to wait for great storytelling. Less is more kind of thing. Daniel Davison and I were just discussing how the literature is likely what will outlast everything else on this platform, likely the platform itself. But there's no wrong answer here. Any extra engagement you add to your Substack likely won't hurt, but it depends on who you want your audience to be. I'm increasingly aware that the more I post about writing, the more my audience will likely be other writers, and that's great. That's the community I want to be surrounded by.
I have another Substack where I'll be posting stories after they are finished. Which is a much different approach than serializing a first draft. But I've yet to prove that I can accomplish that task, so we'll see how it turns out. Working full-time does limit the time we have to work on this stuff.
I hope that helps and wasn't too forward. I welcome others to toss in their thoughts and ideas here as well. Thanks for commenting! Keep up the great work. :)
Not too forward at all. That's the kind of thing I was looking for. I hope you and Daniel are right about literature posted on Substack. It really is such a game changer for the vast majority of writers; those of us who aren't well connected or lucky enough for traditional publishing.
The stuff I typically write is kind of niche (I haven't come across that many other historical horror writers), but I'm hoping that also means that there's less competition. I'm not expecting a huge audience, but it would be nice for the stuff I spend all this time on to actually be seen by someone other than me and my friends.
Substack says to be consistent. So whether 2x a month or 1x a week, be consistent. I’ve read from Substack you should post 1x week - but start how you can. My substack has changed so much over the year I’ve done it. And I read about how other substacks are growing crazily - mine isn’t. It’s very slow. But even after a year, I’m still getting into my flow so I’m not worrying about it (too much...). And it seems to people who are growing quickly are cross promoting and sound heavy social media. You see the people having great success- but the thousands who aren’t probably aren’t posting about it. Just keep going.
*and doing heavy social media. Sorry for my typos!
I’ve discovered this radical new technology recently. Ok, it involves two pieces of plastic, but hear me out - they’re only small.
The smaller piece fits inside the bigger one. Inside the smaller piece is this gooey stuff used for mark making. Then you need this flattened pulped tree stuff, but the trees are replaced so no harm no foul. This is when the real magic begins.
I then place collections of systematised marks on the things I’m gonna call pages. Weirdly, those symbols are associated with certain sounds with ascribed meaning. Those meanings are more like associations than definitions but offer incredible opportunities for cognitive and affective correspondence and resonance.
Then - are you ready for this bit? - when arranged in the right way, they carry fragments of my consciousness outwards so that you may learn of how wonderful you all are and how much I appreciate this space.
And it’s all right there on the page. But also not.
Well, when you put it that way....
I do love how this insanely complex thing we do is often overlooked as trivial, yet it's the foundation of almost everything we do in our daily lives. Thanks for that perspective, Adrian. I needed that. :)
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Scrivener is the best investment an author can make (or anyone working on long-form text). The cost is pretty decent for such a powerful professional tool.
I like deadlines, they're useful. I tend to flail about without them. I think this is why I like writing serial fiction so much: it gives me a mini-deadline every week. That's kept me reliably productive for about 7 years now.
Back to Scrivener, I'd also say that I'd have really struggled without it. Its flexible working style and ability to keep everything under one roof has been essential to being able to write, plan and iterate quickly. And while it appears to be a technical and complicated tool at first glance, what I've actually found is that it's got all of the technical aspects of writing - the nuts and bolts and faffy stuff - out of the way, so that I can focus on the creative bits.
ALL THAT SAID: The last few weeks have been a challenge. A mixture of darker, shorter days, busyness with Christmas and my son's birthday and other (nice) things have made it difficult to focus on the writing. I've still got a chapter out every week, but it's been a bit skin-of-my-teeth. I should probably go and write a chapter instead of writing this comment, in fact. ;)
Hey Simon, thanks for taking the time to stop by and comment. That's very high praise for Scrivener. I've been going through the free-trial, and the instructions on how to use it are laid out in a digestible fashion. I think my problem before (back in 2017) was that I didn't take the time to read the instructions and got overwhelmed with all of the features.
You've been doing awesome stuff lately and congrats on the book launch. I'm impressed at the quality of the print and design for No Adults Allowed. It's making Amazon look like a pretty good option for publishing. And having family obligations can really pull one away from writing, so I commend you for sticking to your passion. Keep it up! :)
I didn't really 'get' Scrivener until I worked on a major project in it. Dabbling with a blank project feels overwhelming, without seeing the benefits. It was only when I ported a manuscript into it (which had previously been in a single giant Word doc) that I suddenly realised its real power - taking a big chunk of text and splitting it into navigable chunks.
Huge thanks for grabbing a copy of NAA! Really appreciate that. I was also pleasantly surprised by the print quality. The cover card is slightly more bendy than I'd like, but the actual colour reproduction on it is spot on (looks exactly like my digital files). The quality of the interior really shines, I think: nice paper, doesn't feel like toilet paper, very clear, black print.
I may have to look into going wider in the future (eg via Ingram Spark), but one thing at a time. I'd need to significantly increase my sales for that extra effort to be worth it.
I use google docs for my writing, not only is it free and on the cloud, but I can curl up in bed and plug away on my iPad. For notes, I use Google sheets and sometimes Procreate if I need a digital sketchbook. They just happen to be what I already have on hand on my iPad. It’s a step up from napkins, post it notes, and a dozen notebooks at least. I have 3 file folders full of my scrap notes for my Tuomi world building. I’m impressed I still somehow understand the random scribbles I made over 20 years ago.
Only deadline I give myself is to try posting on Fridays. I give myself flexibility because my health and job as mom needs to come first. The moment writing stops being a relaxing ‘hobby’ and becomes a required ’job’ is when I’ll probably stop. I have enough ‘jobs’... too many to be honest.
Glad to see equal support for the ol' Docs. It's one of the best free options (IMO) that is easily accessible on all platforms. I've never considered using Sheets as a note-taking tool, so that's unique and smart. Have you used Google Keep? I re-discovered it last week and I LOVE the simplicity of the tag feature. I need to use Procreate more, it's such a powerful art tool that I have zero experience with.
I totally understand the desire to keep writing as a hobby. That's healthy. I lose interest in a project fairly quickly if I don't feel passionately about it. However, I run into problems with novels because I tend to move on to the next shiny idea. That's why serializing has been the best option for completing longer stories since it keeps it fresh on the mind.
Thanks for commenting, Elly!!
Napkins can be fun too though. I just started writing in a physical journal again after a long break. I kinda love it.
Journaling is so therapeutic. I really like it.
Absolutely 💯
I find that deadlines ensure stuff actually gets written, otherwise it tends to be kicked down the road, giving way to jobs that do have a deadline attached.
Hey Terry, this is so true. I've noticed that without having deadlines, stories have been in my head for 10+ years. That has to change. If you want different results, you have to do things differently.
Yes! Conversely: the definition of insanity -- doing the same thing and expecting a different result!
The story a week deadline (1000-2000 words) I set for myself ended up being critical for my personal growth. Between that and sending out for publication, it also helped me to build up enough stories to put together a collection.
For writing I use Google docs, but for the collection I'm putting it together and formatting inside LibreOffice, which is free and open source. I save it to a network drive and backup inside Dropbox. I don't really take notes, but I have an idea journal now that I write in... that's my crazy process 😂
That story a week deadline sounds awesome! I need to do something like that. I get too caught up in the perfection of the story planning and forget that the point of all this is to write it down somewhere to fix it later.
Haven't heard of LibreOffice, but I'll look it up. Sounds like you've got a routine and a method that works for you! I like it. Keep it up, Brian.
I ended up purchasing Atticus for my formatting, which I'm liking but I haven't been able to use it to its full capacity just yet. I'll probably update everyone as I get closer to actually publishing something soon.
Thanks for stopping by to comment! I look forward to reading more of your work. You're doing awesome stuff on Future Thief and Fictionistas.
Thanks Winston! I've never heard of Atticus so I'll have to check that out.
Great question. I’m old-school. Jonathan Franzen-style. I use good ole Word. As a few have said on here, and as I’ve heard repeatedly on Substack Reads: it’s all about consistency and quality when it comes to posts. I post every 3-4 days; usually twice a week. I’ve found personally that posting early (I schedule ahead) around 4am gets more reads. I think it’s cause early risers see it up front in their inbox. As a book editor had freelance writer I’m used to deadlines.
Nice, Michael. Word is fairly popular still. A lot of my writing buddies here in Utah prefer Word. I have nothing against it, it just hasn't always been accessible to me, I suppose (switching between Apple and other products, for example).
I also post 2 times a week. I think it's a happy balance of keeping readers engaged and not overwhelming their inboxes.
I think you're right about posting in the AM. I used to do that but I couldn't sleep the night before because I was too stressed about the post going out, so I moved it to the evening and I saw a slight decline in engagement. But it's okay! I am psychologically happier by having the extra time to edit/worry haha.
Ha! I totally relate. But I kinda like that adrenaline right before bed, like, How many will read??
And I write on deadline for the most part, but will move them if it's helpful.
I wish I could write every day. I sit down to write sometimes and nothing happens. Sigh. But it's always those last few days before a deadline that I can crank something out. It's how I've always worked.
I do both but only when writing books. Michael Chabon said something like if you're going to write novels, that's a lot of words, so you've got to write every day. Which is pretty much how it works for me. The trick is to get really connected to the world and the work of describing it. Not the world deets, per se, but anything that keeps you interested in it. For me, that's usually the people in it—you know, the characters—and the strange circumstance of whatever a scene is about.
I like that. It is a lot of words indeed. I suppose that's why I carry a journal around most of the time. Not necessarily to "work" on the stories, but the tangible reminder that it's there and can be accessed at any moment to get immersed back into the world. So that is important.
Google Docs is the easiest way for me to do that. Just boom and I'm in.
I bought scrivener and instantly loved it for all the nerdy fun writerly features and doodads it provided. Then 90% through writing my novel it crashed, locked me out forever and destroyed all my work!
After a brief anxiety attack, I thankfully remembered I had emailed some earlier draft chapters to myself and was able to recover it in pieces. Whew! (On the bright side, the crash forced me to rewrite some of the later sections in a more efficient manner 🤪)
Though I loved using the system, I definitely learned a lesson in storing all my story information (all notes, backstories, ideas, etc.) in one place. Now I use good ol’ Word and Dropbox! But I do miss the visual aspect of having all my notes in one place with Scrivener, which felt extremely immersive. (Like I was steeping in my own story 😊)
I’m glad to have discovered this newsletter and all you fellow writers!
Oh my!! That would have terrified me. But like you said, I probably would have rewritten it better in the end.
I think that’s what I’m craving, the visual appeal. I’m using Google Keep and it’s nice to add color tags and pictures to the notes. Very handy.
I wish steeping in story notes was a real thing. A passive soak. 😆
Glad you found us!! Don’t hesitate to reach out if you want to chat or if you have questions. Happy to help where I can.
I wrote my first book using Google Docs. Shared a copy with my editor and beta readers, made all my revisions. Designed the cover using Google Slides. Made enough money to buy Scrivener. Used it for a little bit, but couldn’t do everything I wanted through it (sharing, cover design). Then my child killed my Mac and I switched to a Chromebook because I don’t want to spend hundreds or thousands every time a kid breaks something (so far: MacBook, iPad, iPad Pro, iPhone). So now I’m back to doing everything on Google products (except formatting, for which I use Atticus).
Hey Teague, you've laid out a process that resembles mine pretty closely. Google Slides is super straightforward. I used it for a presentation fairly recently. I use Canva Pro for all of my graphic design stuff now and I'm liking it so far. I also use Atticus!!! But my book is currently being edited, so I haven't formatted using it just yet. Soon!
Sorry for your loss... Apple products are so pricey!! I can't imagine having my iPad Pro broken. *knocks on wood*
Thanks for commenting!! I love hearing about other people's creative process.
I tried notion for a while but found it took way more time to file everything in there. (I still used Google docs.) I sometimes get confused, but I’ll link a research/notes doc on the page I’m writing so I can keep them separate but reference them easily. I’ve shed so many tears over new technology over the past year I’ll stick to a sharpie and large notepad, or computer... my website has been down for almost 2 weeks because I decided I needed to redesign it and thought I needed to change domain servers. After 9 days the new company said I have to manually bring the files over. F that. I went back to my old company but that will be another 5-7 days w no work email or website. So I’m happy printing out pages and working old school. I feel more a part of it anyway. I don’t think all these fancy programs save everyone time....
I've heard of Notion, but haven't used it. I like the idea of linking notes to other docs within google docs. I've done that with a few things.
Writing on paper is special in that it forces you to filter out thoughts differently and you might come up with something you otherwise wouldn't have in a virtual expression. I've doodled things next to my notes that help me refine what it is that I'm trying to articulate, which (depending on the software) you can't do easily online.
Sorry to hear that your website is having troubles. I hope it gets resolved soon. Thanks for commenting, Diane!
Is the “app” version of Scrivener intuitive and reliable? I’ve been using an iPad with a blutooth keyboard as a glorified wordprocessor. The app sounds interesting, but I’m wondering if it’s only worth it if used with a laptop or desktop computer. I have two laptops (a Dell and Mac Book Pro), but the iPad is more compact and easy to use during long flights when I get the urge to write and have to use one of those woefully inadequate fold-down trays as a “desk” since I ALWAYS travel economy (or if you prefer “steerage”), since I refuse to pay for upgrades and my friends complain that I’m about one frugality away from being an out-and-out cheapskate.
I haven't used the app version. I wasn't even aware there was an app. But based on Jacquie's answer, I don't think I would enjoy not having everything in one place if I switched between my PC and my iPad. I'm still learning what it can do with the free trial but we'll see if I make the transition from Google Docs. Change is difficult!
I tried the app version on my iPad and it lacked a lot of the features of the original version, to be honest. But that was a few years ago when it first came out, so maybe they upgraded it? I was hoping my docs would synch between the two versions so I could travel with my iPad and keep working, but they did not, though they will between laptops. I browsed some recent reviews on the App Store and it sounds like some of the same issues are still there, so I guess it depends on how you'd want to use it. There is definitely more limited functionality, and you can't access your work from your computer once you create it in the app. But people who wanted to work exclusively on their devices still gave it high reviews.
I also travel in the cheap seats--usually to spend my time hiking, so carrying a laptop is not the best option (though I did actually carry my mini laptop the whole way along Hadrian's Wall. How much writing did I do? None :-\ ) It would be great if the iPad version mirrored the laptop one, or at least synched with it. For now I just write on my iPad/phone in iA Writer and transfer my notes later. Saves me head/backaches :-)
Do you have to pay annually for Scrivener? I considered it when I was first trying to get serious about writing ages ago but never did a deep dive. Is it mostly beloved because it helps keep you organized? What do people who swear by it like the most about it? Sorry this was probably answered elsewhere in the conversation but don’t have time to hunt around right now so thought I would just ask the question.
Hey Thomas, I believe you pay once for the version that is available, but they seem to update it every few years and you have to pay for access to the upgraded versions (optional).
As I understand it, others seem to like the organization tools. I’m using the free trial so I’m still learning but it has a ton of functionality, which can also be daunting.
I’m not sure it’s something I need, but I’m willing to test it out. I mostly need ways to quickly reference notes without clutter. Google Keep has fulfilled that function for now.
Understood, thanks Winston!