The more you write, the bigger the pool of things to read is, the bigger the 20% slice becomes. If you want to help yourself AND help other writers, write a lot and read a lot. If what you write ends up in the 80% that's not as widely read, that means writers you like might be pushed into that 20% category.
I think I'm abusing the exact nature of pareto parity but it makes some kind of sense to me.
I hadn’t thought of it that way. I’m sure you’re right. I think the key of what you present is to at least participate in the process. The act of participating in the community expands the mimetic nature of if. Great comment, Scoot!
I agree that reading a lot is one of the key aspects. I advocate reading everything you can. I know we all have many things going on, but as a writer it's important to make time for reading too.
Ooh, great post. This is right up may alley! I first encountered Girard years ago during my anthropology studies, but he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance at the moment. You’re right to link mimetic desire to the whole checkmark debacle—that was exactly its intended effect (and why I made such a fuss over it.) But people are responsible for their own behavior, including resisting the lure of mimetic desires. Then again, if some want to blindly follow the herd… ;-)
It’s interesting that you connect this with books and the literary world. I never thought of it in those terms, but it makes perfect sense on so many levels.
Girard said: “Passion is the opposite of vanity. Distinguished by emotional autonomy, spontaneity of desires, indifference to the opinion of others. The passionate person draws strength of his desire from within himself not from others.”
“Where spontaneous desire is invigorating and pure, borrowed envious desire is corrosive and toxic.”
I think that’s probably true, whether we’re talking about books or anything else. Passion may not necessarily lead to success (and vanity often does, unfortunately.) But whether speaking about writing or life generally, I think there’s some consolation in pursuing a passion--something you know to be your own. Some readers may want to read what everyone else is reading, but there are also always those of us looking for something more.
Ooo, I’m glad you connected with this. I listened to these two people discuss Girard’s ideas for over an hour and it was truly fascinating, mostly because I’d never heard of him before haha. The internet is my candy shop and I’m the kid sometimes. But what’s funny is a lot of what they were talking about were things that I had been mulling over in my mind, I just hadn’t been able to articulate them or put names to them. So it was refreshing to hear that there was a more scholarly take on it that I could study and pull from.
Love those quotes! Thank you for sharing your insights on Girard. I love “the passionate person draws strength of his desire from within himself not from others.” Wow!
I think I was staring at it more through the lens of Substack rather than the literary world as a whole. Or, at least, the original spark for the post came from navigating social media, rather than a critique on book sales. But I do think there is something to be said about books like Harry Potter creating a blueprint for other folks to then try to imitate the success of, or publishing houses trying to find the “next” Harry Potter, the “next” Hunger Games, the “next” Fifty Shades of Grey. I get there’s a market for things and writers should understand the market in many ways, but I’ve never sat down to write the “next” anything. I like what I like and it’s going to learning experience trying to get there, but I think it’s more fun and special that way, for me at least.
I guess I consider Substack to be part of "the literary world" now (whether they want us or not, haha.) But I agree, and I liked your point about 20% of writers getting 80% of readers (I think) in large part because people want to read what's trendy among their peers. So much of literary culture is not about reading books you LIKE, but about reading books written, raved about, or recommended by people you want to BE LIKE. That's mimetic desire in a nutshell :-)
You’re right! I’ve been too wrapped up in the business stuff lately, reading books on lean startups and optimization techniques lol. It would be refreshing to just dive back into the deep end of literature.
Wow. This is so insightful. I’m not well educated in philosophy or anthropology so I have nothing to add in terms of Gerard. Except that the passion vs vanity comparison blows me away. I feel the pull of both in myself on a weekly basis. But when I give in to vanity I feel awful. I hate what I’m doing. I want to throw it all away. And then when I swing back to my original motivation, I feel life again. I’ll tuck this one away and chew on it a bit more!
I saved that quote for myself because it flipped a switch in my brain when I read it. It never occurred to me to distinguish between passion and vanity that way, but it makes sense to me that we're torn between these two poles. There are some things we can't help but emulate to get by in society, but the things that come from within us exist on a completely different plane...
This is an awesome post, Winston! It really demonstrates the power of both word of mouth and reviews and why they are still the best marketing. I'm going to add something to it and say find "connectors" among those who spread the word. These are people that have a vast network. They are not necessarily considered influencers or popular. They simply have a trust network bigger than most, and it's an idea discussed in Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point. Thanks for posting!
Yes. Human nature. That’s true. People do look to others to inform them what their desires ought to be. People also take advantage of that aspect of human nature. All the time. Wouldn’t it be something if a platform [for instance] rejected that path and simply allowed (or forced) people to make up their own mind as much as possible? If they didn’t publish numbers and other signals that say in a subtle way: hey, do what others are doing. Like what others like.
The ideas you listed to keep motivated are spot on. Thanks for those, Winston. For myself, I do need to squeeze in those 15-30 minutes at times. And of course editing (which I actually love!) And promotion. Working on that one still.
I really wonder what that looks like, Victor. I would like to think Substack could be that, but it’s a pipe dream, I think.
Promotion is probably the most difficult and least effective one for me, if I had to choose. Some people are exceptional at it, but most of the time it seems to fall flat. Throwing money at it doesn’t seem to work either. Sigh. Keep up the great work, Victor! Thanks for providing your insight.
Great post. It’s an arghhhhhh issue w me right now - breaking into the 20%. I’m giving myself 6 months to focus and streamline. I’m starting to wonder if substack is holding me back more than helping me....
Thank you, Diane! Oh no, I didn’t mean to induce any undue stress for not “being in the 20%”. I think many successful writers are comfy where they’ve carved a little niche out for themselves. Hope everything is going well in your world. Let me know if you’d like to talk more about your experiences. I am curious what your thoughts are moving forward. Feel free to answer in a comment or email me. No pressure either way. Keep up the great work!
hmmm - I can't find your email. Basically, I'm just discouraged. I indie published my book last Sept and had no idea HOW much work it would be to market it. And how much money would just disappear. It's like everyone's out to make money - which I can't really fault because so many people have lost their jobs in publishing. And, frankly, it's only going to get worse with AI. But you wouldn't believe how much I've spent and not seen a return on. I mentored startups so I know it's 3-5 years, but it's depressing.
I'm getting great reviews but am not really selling much. I know the book is still considered new, but it's just overwhelming and depressing. I'm also in the midst of writing my next fiction book and I'm in the 'oh this really sucks' phase, so I easily find excuses not to work on that. Add to it my probable delusion I could get some income from substack and medium, and I'm just down about it all. And completely overwhelmed. I'm female and older so getting a job is super hard - did you know that even with all the job openings from covid and the great resignation that women over 45 have still found it nearly impossible to find jobs - unless you want to bag groceries.
I'm super fortunate - I had money saved, so I've been able to take a few years sabbatical and focus on just writing, but I'm not seeing really any results. And I know I shouldn't compare myself to others but I see so many people raking in so much and not having to worry about bills and I just want to cry. So, bottom line, I'm feeling sorry for myself.
I'm exhausted, overwhelmed, and don't feel like I have a writing community, even here on substack. There's you and a couple folks, but I feel like I don't fit it. Problems of a creative.... So, anyway, sorry to rant! I'm giving myself to the end of the year - if I don't have suitable income or know it's coming, I have to get some kind of horrible office-y kind of job that'll kill my soul. Which will be super hard to do anyway because ageism is so alive and rampant. But I can write about it at least!....
Hey Diane, thank you for taking the time to be so open and honest with your experience. I'm rather disappointed in myself that I haven't read your book yet. I feel even worse because you're not the first writer friend that I've said that to lately. It's definitely a time management issue on my part, but I can do better.
I totally understand the frustration that comes with spending money and not getting a return on investment. I've probably spent close to $1000 in social media marketing to only then get about 10 subscribers from it. That's $100 per subscriber!!! Not sustainable at all. It's all a giant racket of suppressing your voice until you pay for it to be lifted temporarily.
I know that you had a non-profit for a while. I'm very interested in talking to you about that more. I've been running The Storyletter like a non-profit more or less since it started. It seems to be the way to go to follow through with the brand of giving back to the community and uplifting fellow writers.
I did some math based on your comment just to see if I could ever turn The Storyletter into a full time thing. The results were disheartening. It would take me close to 30 years at this rate (with the annual compounding rate) to reach a somewhat livable income just from Substack. That insight has now informed me that I should probably change what I'm doing drastically, or scale up somehow.
Working a job that your heart isn't in does suck, but it has been a way for me to appreciate my writing time more. I know that's not what you want to hear. May I ask what it is that you are hoping to achieve in the next 6 months on Substack? How can I help you get there? Email is storyletter@protonmail.com, if you'd rather answer there. Hope you have a wonderful weekend. I really appreciate what you're doing, even if I haven't been as active on Substack lately to show it.
Thanks so much, Winston! I'll email you later today or tomorrow. I'm happy to speak with you about the nonprofit world. It's a shitshow in itself.... And I'm really sorry you did the math and had some rather uninspiring results.... More to come - thanks for just understanding - and do NOT feel bad about not reading my book. I know how hard it is for anyone to make time to read. I've have to make a concerted effort myself.
The more you write, the bigger the pool of things to read is, the bigger the 20% slice becomes. If you want to help yourself AND help other writers, write a lot and read a lot. If what you write ends up in the 80% that's not as widely read, that means writers you like might be pushed into that 20% category.
I think I'm abusing the exact nature of pareto parity but it makes some kind of sense to me.
I hadn’t thought of it that way. I’m sure you’re right. I think the key of what you present is to at least participate in the process. The act of participating in the community expands the mimetic nature of if. Great comment, Scoot!
I agree that reading a lot is one of the key aspects. I advocate reading everything you can. I know we all have many things going on, but as a writer it's important to make time for reading too.
Yes! And read across genres and subjects for maximum effect.
Ooh, great post. This is right up may alley! I first encountered Girard years ago during my anthropology studies, but he seems to be having a bit of a renaissance at the moment. You’re right to link mimetic desire to the whole checkmark debacle—that was exactly its intended effect (and why I made such a fuss over it.) But people are responsible for their own behavior, including resisting the lure of mimetic desires. Then again, if some want to blindly follow the herd… ;-)
It’s interesting that you connect this with books and the literary world. I never thought of it in those terms, but it makes perfect sense on so many levels.
Girard said: “Passion is the opposite of vanity. Distinguished by emotional autonomy, spontaneity of desires, indifference to the opinion of others. The passionate person draws strength of his desire from within himself not from others.”
“Where spontaneous desire is invigorating and pure, borrowed envious desire is corrosive and toxic.”
I think that’s probably true, whether we’re talking about books or anything else. Passion may not necessarily lead to success (and vanity often does, unfortunately.) But whether speaking about writing or life generally, I think there’s some consolation in pursuing a passion--something you know to be your own. Some readers may want to read what everyone else is reading, but there are also always those of us looking for something more.
Ooo, I’m glad you connected with this. I listened to these two people discuss Girard’s ideas for over an hour and it was truly fascinating, mostly because I’d never heard of him before haha. The internet is my candy shop and I’m the kid sometimes. But what’s funny is a lot of what they were talking about were things that I had been mulling over in my mind, I just hadn’t been able to articulate them or put names to them. So it was refreshing to hear that there was a more scholarly take on it that I could study and pull from.
Love those quotes! Thank you for sharing your insights on Girard. I love “the passionate person draws strength of his desire from within himself not from others.” Wow!
I think I was staring at it more through the lens of Substack rather than the literary world as a whole. Or, at least, the original spark for the post came from navigating social media, rather than a critique on book sales. But I do think there is something to be said about books like Harry Potter creating a blueprint for other folks to then try to imitate the success of, or publishing houses trying to find the “next” Harry Potter, the “next” Hunger Games, the “next” Fifty Shades of Grey. I get there’s a market for things and writers should understand the market in many ways, but I’ve never sat down to write the “next” anything. I like what I like and it’s going to learning experience trying to get there, but I think it’s more fun and special that way, for me at least.
I guess I consider Substack to be part of "the literary world" now (whether they want us or not, haha.) But I agree, and I liked your point about 20% of writers getting 80% of readers (I think) in large part because people want to read what's trendy among their peers. So much of literary culture is not about reading books you LIKE, but about reading books written, raved about, or recommended by people you want to BE LIKE. That's mimetic desire in a nutshell :-)
You’re right! I’ve been too wrapped up in the business stuff lately, reading books on lean startups and optimization techniques lol. It would be refreshing to just dive back into the deep end of literature.
Well, I give you credit for reading that stuff! I'm not sure it would even make sense to me if I tried :-|
A lot of it is just fluff, but there are some good concepts out there. I didn’t go to college so hopefully this is offsetting that in some way lol
Well, as someone who went but bailed before finishing, imo the library is way more valuable than college--and way cheaper ;-)
Wow. This is so insightful. I’m not well educated in philosophy or anthropology so I have nothing to add in terms of Gerard. Except that the passion vs vanity comparison blows me away. I feel the pull of both in myself on a weekly basis. But when I give in to vanity I feel awful. I hate what I’m doing. I want to throw it all away. And then when I swing back to my original motivation, I feel life again. I’ll tuck this one away and chew on it a bit more!
Same here, Shaina!
I saved that quote for myself because it flipped a switch in my brain when I read it. It never occurred to me to distinguish between passion and vanity that way, but it makes sense to me that we're torn between these two poles. There are some things we can't help but emulate to get by in society, but the things that come from within us exist on a completely different plane...
Write about this please! I want to hear all your thoughts!
Wow, that could be fun! Maybe I will :-) Thanks for the idea!
I love this idea too. I’m with Shaina. Very interested in reading more about this subject.
This is an awesome post, Winston! It really demonstrates the power of both word of mouth and reviews and why they are still the best marketing. I'm going to add something to it and say find "connectors" among those who spread the word. These are people that have a vast network. They are not necessarily considered influencers or popular. They simply have a trust network bigger than most, and it's an idea discussed in Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point. Thanks for posting!
Thanks, Brian. Connectors is a good one. Almost like networking in the sense of it’s a “who you know” kind of thing.
That book sounds right up my alley. Thanks for the recommendation!
Yes. Human nature. That’s true. People do look to others to inform them what their desires ought to be. People also take advantage of that aspect of human nature. All the time. Wouldn’t it be something if a platform [for instance] rejected that path and simply allowed (or forced) people to make up their own mind as much as possible? If they didn’t publish numbers and other signals that say in a subtle way: hey, do what others are doing. Like what others like.
The ideas you listed to keep motivated are spot on. Thanks for those, Winston. For myself, I do need to squeeze in those 15-30 minutes at times. And of course editing (which I actually love!) And promotion. Working on that one still.
I really wonder what that looks like, Victor. I would like to think Substack could be that, but it’s a pipe dream, I think.
Promotion is probably the most difficult and least effective one for me, if I had to choose. Some people are exceptional at it, but most of the time it seems to fall flat. Throwing money at it doesn’t seem to work either. Sigh. Keep up the great work, Victor! Thanks for providing your insight.
Maybe we're in the same boat then. Promotion is not my strong suit. I'm learning a little bit, but still....
Great post. It’s an arghhhhhh issue w me right now - breaking into the 20%. I’m giving myself 6 months to focus and streamline. I’m starting to wonder if substack is holding me back more than helping me....
Thank you, Diane! Oh no, I didn’t mean to induce any undue stress for not “being in the 20%”. I think many successful writers are comfy where they’ve carved a little niche out for themselves. Hope everything is going well in your world. Let me know if you’d like to talk more about your experiences. I am curious what your thoughts are moving forward. Feel free to answer in a comment or email me. No pressure either way. Keep up the great work!
hmmm - I can't find your email. Basically, I'm just discouraged. I indie published my book last Sept and had no idea HOW much work it would be to market it. And how much money would just disappear. It's like everyone's out to make money - which I can't really fault because so many people have lost their jobs in publishing. And, frankly, it's only going to get worse with AI. But you wouldn't believe how much I've spent and not seen a return on. I mentored startups so I know it's 3-5 years, but it's depressing.
I'm getting great reviews but am not really selling much. I know the book is still considered new, but it's just overwhelming and depressing. I'm also in the midst of writing my next fiction book and I'm in the 'oh this really sucks' phase, so I easily find excuses not to work on that. Add to it my probable delusion I could get some income from substack and medium, and I'm just down about it all. And completely overwhelmed. I'm female and older so getting a job is super hard - did you know that even with all the job openings from covid and the great resignation that women over 45 have still found it nearly impossible to find jobs - unless you want to bag groceries.
I'm super fortunate - I had money saved, so I've been able to take a few years sabbatical and focus on just writing, but I'm not seeing really any results. And I know I shouldn't compare myself to others but I see so many people raking in so much and not having to worry about bills and I just want to cry. So, bottom line, I'm feeling sorry for myself.
I'm exhausted, overwhelmed, and don't feel like I have a writing community, even here on substack. There's you and a couple folks, but I feel like I don't fit it. Problems of a creative.... So, anyway, sorry to rant! I'm giving myself to the end of the year - if I don't have suitable income or know it's coming, I have to get some kind of horrible office-y kind of job that'll kill my soul. Which will be super hard to do anyway because ageism is so alive and rampant. But I can write about it at least!....
Hey Diane, thank you for taking the time to be so open and honest with your experience. I'm rather disappointed in myself that I haven't read your book yet. I feel even worse because you're not the first writer friend that I've said that to lately. It's definitely a time management issue on my part, but I can do better.
I totally understand the frustration that comes with spending money and not getting a return on investment. I've probably spent close to $1000 in social media marketing to only then get about 10 subscribers from it. That's $100 per subscriber!!! Not sustainable at all. It's all a giant racket of suppressing your voice until you pay for it to be lifted temporarily.
I know that you had a non-profit for a while. I'm very interested in talking to you about that more. I've been running The Storyletter like a non-profit more or less since it started. It seems to be the way to go to follow through with the brand of giving back to the community and uplifting fellow writers.
I did some math based on your comment just to see if I could ever turn The Storyletter into a full time thing. The results were disheartening. It would take me close to 30 years at this rate (with the annual compounding rate) to reach a somewhat livable income just from Substack. That insight has now informed me that I should probably change what I'm doing drastically, or scale up somehow.
Working a job that your heart isn't in does suck, but it has been a way for me to appreciate my writing time more. I know that's not what you want to hear. May I ask what it is that you are hoping to achieve in the next 6 months on Substack? How can I help you get there? Email is storyletter@protonmail.com, if you'd rather answer there. Hope you have a wonderful weekend. I really appreciate what you're doing, even if I haven't been as active on Substack lately to show it.
Thanks so much, Winston! I'll email you later today or tomorrow. I'm happy to speak with you about the nonprofit world. It's a shitshow in itself.... And I'm really sorry you did the math and had some rather uninspiring results.... More to come - thanks for just understanding - and do NOT feel bad about not reading my book. I know how hard it is for anyone to make time to read. I've have to make a concerted effort myself.
Very interesting and true. Great post!
Oh, sweet Winston ... human nature is quite nefarious 😏😂
Lol maybe I didn’t think too deeply on that before writing it into the post. Human nature can be quite nefarious indeed.
In terms of your suggestions, marketing is definitely the one I struggle with. For all the reasons 😫
I feel the struggle, T. It’s a tough one indeed. I can barely bring myself to do it lately.